Register For Our Mailing List

Register to receive our free weekly newsletter including editorials.

Home / 291

Marks and the tax system explained in beer

The following explanation of the tax system has been popular for many years, and in his latest memo released yesterday, Oaktree's Howard Marks quotes it and says,

"I've been waiting a long time for a chance to use this. The numbers may not be exactly right but the idea is. The unarguable bottom line is that everyone's view of the fairness of the tax system - like most such matters - depends largely on the angle from which you look at it."

Here is an example of the beer explanation:

"Suppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20." Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody's share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a 100% saving).
The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).
The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).
The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).
The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).
And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).

Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.

But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got £1 out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a £1 too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next week the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important - they didn't have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill!

And that is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier."

 

  •   30 January 2019
  • 20
  •      
  •   
20 Comments
Z. Gregory
January 31, 2019

Oh dear.........beautifully explained!

Alastair
January 31, 2019

Graham
It would be good to see the same example in reverse - the beers now cost 120 pounds - more like real life. It might show that the poorest have the highest tax increase in percentage terms. The bar owner might suggest a consumption tax!

James
January 31, 2019

Send a copy to Shorten and Bowen! Not that they'd take it on board. Socialism's great until you run out of other people's money!!

Sean
January 31, 2019

Spot on James.

Pat
January 31, 2019

Oh no, not that hoary old story again. That's being doing the rounds on emails between spotty libertarians since Adam was a cowboy. It's one of Donald Trump's favourite analogies, which should tell you something about how bone-headed it is. https://splinternews.com/that-weird-analogy-about-beer-and-tax-cuts-was-dumb-as-1820002805

Paul
January 31, 2019

Brilliant and fair analogy. We have to stop going after the heavy lifters who actually take risks and achieve something; for themselves and the economy at large. Sapping gov't pension payments is the last thing they want but maybe this is what Bowen wants; as well as diverting smsf money into union run industry funds.
Why isn't Bowen retrospectively getting rid of the ridiculously expensive and totally unfunded Defined benefits super he and his politician cronies will enjoy in retirement; irrespective of market conditions? There's the perfect honey pot but no he doesn't even mention what an unfair yet ongoing burden this is and will continue to be.

Nick
January 31, 2019

Australia has become are country full of victims, whingers always expecting a hand out and crying it's just not fair.
We've come so far in such a short amount of time through people with strong work ethics who are prepared to take a chance.
So for everybody voting for Shorten there's a saying.
If you're over 40 and vote Labour there's no excuse for your stupidity.

Pablo
January 31, 2019

There is a difference.

In the story the tenth man is giving more beer for the greater good without expectation of something in return. He is a good bloke and it is completely wrong to bash him.

In the tax system he is paying a due to maintain the society that allows him to generate wealth in the first place, either directly or indirectly for his business or workers. You know, education, health care, infrastructure, security etc. He may not always like how it is spent but he would be less likely to do as well or be as happy without it.

The story misses the first part and so implies that the wealth was provided directly by God and none of those things was needed in its creation. The ‘heavy lifters’ as Paul calls them are not the nurses and teachers and countless others but simply those that amass wealth.
- a great test if you have it.

In the story, the tenth man leaves and the rest drink less beer. In the tax system the tenth man (not always but often) hires a ‘good’ accountant and pays less tax than the fifth man and sees no issue.

In cases like negative gearing he does it by (mostly) creating nothing and receives a tax benefit for losing money while hoping to make a bigger benefit from capital growth where he gets another discount. Very heavy lifting that is.

The tenth man should understand the difference between value creation and value extraction, but he often doesn’t and so complains when rents are taken away and doesn’t understand why others may be upset with him for using his wealth to protect these rent seeking activities.

In those cases if he still want to take his ball and bat and leave, he should go because others will come and use those resources to create wealth in his place.

El Ricardo
February 06, 2019

Well said Pablo - the beer analogy totally ignores that #10 is the only one with the financial capacity to pay for "manipulation" of the system to end up paying little or nothing for his beer!

Over it
January 31, 2019

The next chapter...

...And the first five enjoy the free beer so much, they keep drinking, and drinking until there is no beer left.

It’s ok though, because the bar owner can create a beer levy for the tenth guy to fund further brewing. They can then charge the tenth guy to drink the freshly brewed ale.

Pat, spoken like a true free loader, who wants someone who he despises, and is jealous of, to pay for his beers.

Graham Hand
January 31, 2019

OK, let's keep the discussion constructive. Some of the comments are not adding to the debate and are too personal and party-political.

Jimbo
February 01, 2019

That’s not how progressive tax works. IF you want to pay me a $1 million a year and tax me 70 cents in the dollar for anything over $500,000 I guarantee I’ll still turn up for work. Out of the goodness of my heart. Lol

Howard Coleman
December 22, 2020

No you'd move yourself and your business to another country and create jobs there instead. The people you previously employed in your old country would lose their jobs and become dependent on the state, thereby making the politicians in your old country more important. These politicians would love their increased importance in being able to hand out money of others to additional people.

Spoon
December 23, 2020

Spot on Howard. People need to more concerned with multi nationals not paying tax IE. IKEA and the tech giants!

Carikku de Roo
February 01, 2019

Love this

Jacquie Hayes
February 02, 2019

What an appropriate description of the Australian tax landscape. It’s a shame our politicians seem incapable of laying things out for taxpayers so clearly. It might save some grief.

Ian A
February 03, 2019

Somehow he needs to work the Cayman Islands into this story...for completeness...

Ramon Vasquez
February 03, 2019

Would it not be fairer to scrap the current system altogether ,
and start afresh with one based on a percentage of one's salary for every one , plus a GST based on a sliding scale upwards from basics to extreme luxury ?

Would such be too difficult to implement ?

Ramon .

Rick Maggi
February 03, 2019

...I’d bet the Venezuelan version of this story would be much shorter...by day two the beer would cost £500 and the tenth man would have fled overnight to Panama. The end.

Shaun
February 03, 2019

What about the family trust guy, with a couple of kids (tax mules) over 18 at uni?

 

Leave a Comment:

RELATED ARTICLES

Marks and the tax system explained in beer

Taking from the young, giving to the old

Clearing up confusion on how franking credits work

banner

Most viewed in recent weeks

The growing debt burden of retiring Australians

More Australians are retiring with larger mortgages and less super. This paper explores how unlocking housing wealth can help ease the nation’s growing retirement cashflow crunch.

Four best-ever charts for every adviser and investor

In any year since 1875, if you'd invested in the ASX, turned away and come back eight years later, your average return would be 120% with no negative periods. It's just one of the must-have stats that all investors should know.

LICs vs ETFs – which perform best?

With investor sentiment shifting and ETFs surging ahead, we pit Australia’s biggest LICs against their ETF rivals to see which delivers better returns over the short and long term. The results are revealing.

Our experts on Jim Chalmers' super tax backdown

Labor has caved to pressure on key parts of the Division 296 tax, though also added some important nuances. Here are six experts’ views on the changes and what they mean for you.        

Preparing for aged care

Whether for yourself or a family member, it’s never too early to start thinking about aged care. This looks at the best ways to plan ahead, as well as the changes coming to aged care from November 1 this year.

Family trusts: Are they still worth it?

Family trusts remain a core structure for wealth management, but rising ATO scrutiny and complex compliance raise questions about their ongoing value. Are the benefits still worth the administrative burden?

Latest Updates

Taxation

13 ways to save money on your tax - legally

Thoughtful tax planning is a cornerstone of successful investing. This highlights 13 legal ways that you can reduce tax, preserve capital, and enhance long-term wealth across super, property, and shares.

Taxation

Taking from the young, giving to the old

Despite soaring retiree wealth, public spending on older Australians continues to rise. The result: retirees now out-earn the young, exposing structural flaws in the tax system and challenges for fiscal sustainability.

Investment strategies

An obsessive focus on costs may be costing investors

As a relentless fee war grips Australia’s ETF market, investors may be missing the real battleground. Beyond basis points, index design itself - not cost - may be the most powerful driver of returns.

Taxation

Clearing up confusion on how franking credits work

It seems the mere mention of franking credits generates a lot of heat but not much light. Here's a guide to how franking credits work, and the impact they have on both companies and shareholders.

Investment strategies

Are the good times about to end?

As the bull market revs up, some investors worry about a possible correction. History shows the real question isn’t timing the top, but whether you have the time and liquidity to ride out inevitable downturns.

Superannuation

Australia slips in global pension ranking

The 2025 Mercer CFA Institute Global Pension Index shows Australia has dropped to its lowest ranking in the 17 years of the index. This explores why we're falling and what can be done about it.

Property

Where wine country meets real estate

High-profile wine regions don’t always see strong property growth - volume, exports, and infrastructure investment often matter more than reputation in driving regional property markets.

Sponsors

Alliances

© 2025 Morningstar, Inc. All rights reserved.

Disclaimer
The data, research and opinions provided here are for information purposes; are not an offer to buy or sell a security; and are not warranted to be correct, complete or accurate. Morningstar, its affiliates, and third-party content providers are not responsible for any investment decisions, damages or losses resulting from, or related to, the data and analyses or their use. To the extent any content is general advice, it has been prepared for clients of Morningstar Australasia Pty Ltd (ABN: 95 090 665 544, AFSL: 240892), without reference to your financial objectives, situation or needs. For more information refer to our Financial Services Guide. You should consider the advice in light of these matters and if applicable, the relevant Product Disclosure Statement before making any decision to invest. Past performance does not necessarily indicate a financial product’s future performance. To obtain advice tailored to your situation, contact a professional financial adviser. Articles are current as at date of publication.
This website contains information and opinions provided by third parties. Inclusion of this information does not necessarily represent Morningstar’s positions, strategies or opinions and should not be considered an endorsement by Morningstar.